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	<title>Comments on: Our Institutions Today &#8211; Zombies!</title>
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		<title>By: Rob Paterson</title>
		<link>http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/comment-page-1/#comment-25902</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Paterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/#comment-25902</guid>
		<description>My Army and Marine friends tell me the same. Is careerism inevitable? I spent 25 years in a bank and saw the same - those of us who could think and who acted as warriors and got the tough jobs done never got higher than the equivalent of One Star.

Is this a bureaucratic tendency where being politically smooth is the attribute most required at the top?

If this is so only a full on (Not Insurgency) wartime military or an organization (IBM under Gerstner) in total crisis can tolerate having Grant and Sherman etc as the generals.

I feel sad as if I am right there is no room for real reform</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My Army and Marine friends tell me the same. Is careerism inevitable? I spent 25 years in a bank and saw the same &#8211; those of us who could think and who acted as warriors and got the tough jobs done never got higher than the equivalent of One Star.</p>
<p>Is this a bureaucratic tendency where being politically smooth is the attribute most required at the top?</p>
<p>If this is so only a full on (Not Insurgency) wartime military or an organization (IBM under Gerstner) in total crisis can tolerate having Grant and Sherman etc as the generals.</p>
<p>I feel sad as if I am right there is no room for real reform</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Desrosier</title>
		<link>http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/comment-page-1/#comment-25800</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Desrosier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/#comment-25800</guid>
		<description>Dear Bob,
As a 33 year veteran of the U.S. Navy, I think much of what you are saying is right on.

Here&#039;s a few things I noticed in my career - yes I was always considered somewhat of a rebel and iconoclast.
-  Perpetuating one&#039;s career becomes job 1
-  Not making waves is how one gets promoted.  Merit is of little importance beyond mid-grade officer ranks.
-  Most of the creative people leave the military after one hitch.  
-  Military people are seldom innovative, but they are fiercely loyal.
-  Senior people are less ethical than their juniors.  Perhaps they see more ambiguity later in life, just as we all do.

Again, good article.
Tom Desrosier
Commander, US Navy, Retired.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Bob,<br />
As a 33 year veteran of the U.S. Navy, I think much of what you are saying is right on.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a few things I noticed in my career &#8211; yes I was always considered somewhat of a rebel and iconoclast.<br />
-  Perpetuating one&#8217;s career becomes job 1<br />
-  Not making waves is how one gets promoted.  Merit is of little importance beyond mid-grade officer ranks.<br />
-  Most of the creative people leave the military after one hitch.<br />
-  Military people are seldom innovative, but they are fiercely loyal.<br />
-  Senior people are less ethical than their juniors.  Perhaps they see more ambiguity later in life, just as we all do.</p>
<p>Again, good article.<br />
Tom Desrosier<br />
Commander, US Navy, Retired.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Howlett</title>
		<link>http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/comment-page-1/#comment-25516</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Howlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 02:23:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/#comment-25516</guid>
		<description>Interpretation is in the eye/ear/mind of the reader. My problem was the way in which I saw social software positioned in Rob&#039;s original piece. It&#039;s helpful that Rob acknowledges the researched issues. However, as a social scientist by education, I hold to the view that technology is not a panacea. (I think Bob probably agrees that point) What I don&#039;t see are solutions that integrate ways into the well known problems Bob acknowledges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interpretation is in the eye/ear/mind of the reader. My problem was the way in which I saw social software positioned in Rob&#8217;s original piece. It&#8217;s helpful that Rob acknowledges the researched issues. However, as a social scientist by education, I hold to the view that technology is not a panacea. (I think Bob probably agrees that point) What I don&#8217;t see are solutions that integrate ways into the well known problems Bob acknowledges.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Husband</title>
		<link>http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/comment-page-1/#comment-25469</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Husband</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/#comment-25469</guid>
		<description>That said, I agree that social &quot;media&quot; is an important if not core component in helping to create awareness of the need for new structures, new ways to approach siolutions, as well as being integral compnents of some if not many of the solutions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That said, I agree that social &#8220;media&#8221; is an important if not core component in helping to create awareness of the need for new structures, new ways to approach siolutions, as well as being integral compnents of some if not many of the solutions.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Husband</title>
		<link>http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/comment-page-1/#comment-25468</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Husband</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/#comment-25468</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;how might social &lt;b&gt;siftware&lt;/b&gt; bring back conditions for better learning?&lt;/i&gt;

hehe .. nice typo, Rob .. and perhaps the seed of an answer ?

I don&#039;t doubt that some of the core reasons literacy rates were higher 100 years ago were the absence of other competing media (in the face of the ever-present need to enetrtain onelsef or occupy one&#039;s mind when not involved in tasks), as well as (much) smaller class sizes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>how might social <b>siftware</b> bring back conditions for better learning?</i></p>
<p>hehe .. nice typo, Rob .. and perhaps the seed of an answer ?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t doubt that some of the core reasons literacy rates were higher 100 years ago were the absence of other competing media (in the face of the ever-present need to enetrtain onelsef or occupy one&#8217;s mind when not involved in tasks), as well as (much) smaller class sizes.</p>
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		<title>By: Jevon</title>
		<link>http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/comment-page-1/#comment-25465</link>
		<dc:creator>Jevon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/#comment-25465</guid>
		<description>Dennis: Why can you not get the point that Rob IS NOT saying that social media itself solves problems like literacy? He is saying that THERE ARE OTHER solutions out there, and that social media can help the people who have those solutions get their ideas/influence out there.

C&#039;mon Dennis, I know you&#039;ve read the thing, pause and consider it with somewhat of an open mind. Geez.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis: Why can you not get the point that Rob IS NOT saying that social media itself solves problems like literacy? He is saying that THERE ARE OTHER solutions out there, and that social media can help the people who have those solutions get their ideas/influence out there.</p>
<p>C&#8217;mon Dennis, I know you&#8217;ve read the thing, pause and consider it with somewhat of an open mind. Geez.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Paterson</title>
		<link>http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/comment-page-1/#comment-25256</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Paterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 17:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/#comment-25256</guid>
		<description>Dennis
I think that we agree - most of what shapes us happens at home with our parents. The battle is mainly won or lost by 3. If a child is not reading by Grade 3, it is then very tough.

Here is an old post of mine that I hope will show you that I am on the same page
http://smartpei.typepad.com/our_kids_their_future/2003/10/what_to_do_abou.html

The issue for parents is the same. Top down users of power - authoritarian parents - tend to shut their kids down. Very permissive parents make their kids feel unsafe.

The ideal - authoritative - have boundaries but also encourage &quot;conversation&quot; they do not use power except when they have to.

My point about social software is that it is a way of changing culture - it opens up a more level power playing field and that encourages learning.

While most of the damage is down before a child arrives in school, the culture of schools and their response to the 30% who arrive in trouble means that the main object of the school is control. 

On PEI about 30% arrive in Grade I already lost for the reasons that you and I know about and that I deal with in the other post.

Around Grade 7, we start to lose most of the others because of the culture of the school - top down and mass market one size fits all - by the end 80% of kids leave school largely ill equipped for life.

So I agree, the real work happens before school and there are many things that can be done at school other than social software - the use of Magic Numbers etc. I do not offer this as a silver bullet but as a useful set of tools among many.

My larger point is this - the more open a system - the more healthy it is</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis<br />
I think that we agree &#8211; most of what shapes us happens at home with our parents. The battle is mainly won or lost by 3. If a child is not reading by Grade 3, it is then very tough.</p>
<p>Here is an old post of mine that I hope will show you that I am on the same page<br />
<a href="http://smartpei.typepad.com/our_kids_their_future/2003/10/what_to_do_abou.html" rel="nofollow">http://smartpei.typepad.com/our_kids_their_future/2003/10/what_to_do_abou.html</a></p>
<p>The issue for parents is the same. Top down users of power &#8211; authoritarian parents &#8211; tend to shut their kids down. Very permissive parents make their kids feel unsafe.</p>
<p>The ideal &#8211; authoritative &#8211; have boundaries but also encourage &#8220;conversation&#8221; they do not use power except when they have to.</p>
<p>My point about social software is that it is a way of changing culture &#8211; it opens up a more level power playing field and that encourages learning.</p>
<p>While most of the damage is down before a child arrives in school, the culture of schools and their response to the 30% who arrive in trouble means that the main object of the school is control. </p>
<p>On PEI about 30% arrive in Grade I already lost for the reasons that you and I know about and that I deal with in the other post.</p>
<p>Around Grade 7, we start to lose most of the others because of the culture of the school &#8211; top down and mass market one size fits all &#8211; by the end 80% of kids leave school largely ill equipped for life.</p>
<p>So I agree, the real work happens before school and there are many things that can be done at school other than social software &#8211; the use of Magic Numbers etc. I do not offer this as a silver bullet but as a useful set of tools among many.</p>
<p>My larger point is this &#8211; the more open a system &#8211; the more healthy it is</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Howlett</title>
		<link>http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/comment-page-1/#comment-25251</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Howlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 17:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fastforwardblog.com/2007/07/20/our-institutions-today-zombies/#comment-25251</guid>
		<description>Sorry Rob - I&#039;m not convinced. 

Chimeras have nothing to do with what you&#039;re talking about but are a biological phenomena that can&#039;t possibly be connected to the myth of zombie-ism.

In making the case for social software, you are making a BIG assumption. That is the deterioration in literacy levels can be solved by a magic bullet without reference to the roots causes of illiteracy. What about the problems of race, class, social cohesion and poverty? Social software, by its very nature is only available to a certain slice of society. 

What about reading in the family - a well documented and related factor to generational literacy? What about environmental factors? Some will argue the TV generation works against literacy and yet at least one part of social software assumes use of TV and TV substitutes?

What about those who have learning disabilities? How does social software address their issues?

What about political agendas that dictate policies which in some cases have had adverse effects? How does social software impact that element? 

My point is that literacy is not a one dimensional problem and that while faulty systems may have a part to play, they are not seen as a leading factor in any of the research I&#039;ve seen. Therefore, to ascribe cause and effect to systemic power issues is  erroneous.  

One issue that turns up time and again is the extent to which children were encouraged to learn before they ever went to school. How does social software address that in your system of learning? 

Ascribing a control theory alone and arguing the &#039;wisdom of crowds&#039; as a way out to illiteracy is not proven. Some would argue that empirical evidence suggests quite the opposite in learning environments. 

Sorry Rob. Make a different case and I might agree but grasping at social software as a cure all *because* literacy is something that can be cured through systems application is dangerous. IMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Rob &#8211; I&#8217;m not convinced. </p>
<p>Chimeras have nothing to do with what you&#8217;re talking about but are a biological phenomena that can&#8217;t possibly be connected to the myth of zombie-ism.</p>
<p>In making the case for social software, you are making a BIG assumption. That is the deterioration in literacy levels can be solved by a magic bullet without reference to the roots causes of illiteracy. What about the problems of race, class, social cohesion and poverty? Social software, by its very nature is only available to a certain slice of society. </p>
<p>What about reading in the family &#8211; a well documented and related factor to generational literacy? What about environmental factors? Some will argue the TV generation works against literacy and yet at least one part of social software assumes use of TV and TV substitutes?</p>
<p>What about those who have learning disabilities? How does social software address their issues?</p>
<p>What about political agendas that dictate policies which in some cases have had adverse effects? How does social software impact that element? </p>
<p>My point is that literacy is not a one dimensional problem and that while faulty systems may have a part to play, they are not seen as a leading factor in any of the research I&#8217;ve seen. Therefore, to ascribe cause and effect to systemic power issues is  erroneous.  </p>
<p>One issue that turns up time and again is the extent to which children were encouraged to learn before they ever went to school. How does social software address that in your system of learning? </p>
<p>Ascribing a control theory alone and arguing the &#8216;wisdom of crowds&#8217; as a way out to illiteracy is not proven. Some would argue that empirical evidence suggests quite the opposite in learning environments. </p>
<p>Sorry Rob. Make a different case and I might agree but grasping at social software as a cure all *because* literacy is something that can be cured through systems application is dangerous. IMO.</p>
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