Comments on: Politics 2.0 – Real Democracy is close http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2008/11/07/politics-20-real-democracy-is-close/ Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:38:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Robert http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2008/11/07/politics-20-real-democracy-is-close/comment-page-1/#comment-190299 Robert Tue, 11 Nov 2008 05:28:40 +0000 http://www.fastforwardblog.com/?p=1195#comment-190299 As long as we all rely on the beneficence of one leader to grant us real democracy, we should not fool ourselves into thinking that we have achieved any sort of ideal. Obama can make as many websites as he wants, but in the end, all decisions are up to him and him alone. That's more like a democratic monarchy than a true democracy. If you want to see real, actual change of the system, you should check out the <a href="http://www.metagovernment.org/" rel="nofollow">Metagovernment project</a>. They are building a Web 2.0 system that will completely free us from the tyranny of politicians. As long as we all rely on the beneficence of one leader to grant us real democracy, we should not fool ourselves into thinking that we have achieved any sort of ideal.

Obama can make as many websites as he wants, but in the end, all decisions are up to him and him alone. That’s more like a democratic monarchy than a true democracy.

If you want to see real, actual change of the system, you should check out the Metagovernment project. They are building a Web 2.0 system that will completely free us from the tyranny of politicians.

]]> By: Noah David Simon http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2008/11/07/politics-20-real-democracy-is-close/comment-page-1/#comment-190276 Noah David Simon Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:57:21 +0000 http://www.fastforwardblog.com/?p=1195#comment-190276 exactly my point. the election was bought. Acorn, Soros, Buffet and all foreign money desperate to turn America isolationist. this isn't tin foil hat stuff... all viewpoints point to the same truth that the media and the powers that be either (a) cheated the vote or (b) bought the vote. hipsters tweeting around did not change the world... in fact they were reactionary, viral and lacking of any autonomy. Why does Obama get away with it? because he is following the precedent set by Bush... which is why in the future the GOP should favor fair election policy because 2000 just backfired. What comes around... goes around.... but the rules are out of wack. tweet tweet tweet! exactly my point. the election was bought. Acorn, Soros, Buffet and all foreign money desperate to turn America isolationist. this isn’t tin foil hat stuff… all viewpoints point to the same truth that the media and the powers that be either (a) cheated the vote or (b) bought the vote. hipsters tweeting around did not change the world… in fact they were reactionary, viral and lacking of any autonomy. Why does Obama get away with it? because he is following the precedent set by Bush… which is why in the future the GOP should favor fair election policy because 2000 just backfired. What comes around… goes around…. but the rules are out of wack. tweet tweet tweet!

]]> By: Joe P http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2008/11/07/politics-20-real-democracy-is-close/comment-page-1/#comment-190274 Joe P Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:09:44 +0000 http://www.fastforwardblog.com/?p=1195#comment-190274 I think an in-depth analysis of 'Politics 2.0' would be pretty interesting, but we need to get beyond the superficial. As the comments above pointed out, Obama raised an insane amount of money. Yes there were 'grassroots' donations, but there were all the big name lobbying orgs, corporations, PACs/etc. He used 2.0 outlets, but really spent a lot on his 30 minute TV spot and other mainstream media outlets. He also had a lot of help by getting these outlets on his side (See today's article by the WaPo, on the WaPo's coverage...interesting). I found the debates on TV surprisingly devoid of intelligent conversation about anything. Both he and McCain danced around issues and never really debated - in the classic sense of the word - any kind of policy. They basically just pointed fingers, caricatured and argued. And my impression of the young voting block is not great -- maybe I'm biased by the "Rock the Vote"-type exposees where the 100,000+ new registrants had a hard time answering how many Senators we have, what the Bill of Rights is, what happened in 1776, etc. I would love to see some hard proof about how people are using 2.0 and collaboration to: a) Intelligently discuss/debate issues (not just flame others or 'sound off' against the left or right) b) become more informed of issues in a bi-partisan fashion (e.g. what blogs/wikis/Facebook groups discuss alternative energy, healthcare reform, etc. and aren't a front or tool of a heavily left-leaning or right-leaning organization) c) act as a seeding ground for new policy ideas and solutions to our problems Anything that shows 2.0 technology accomplishing or trying to accomplish any of the three things above would be very impressive to me. I think an in-depth analysis of ‘Politics 2.0′ would be pretty interesting, but we need to get beyond the superficial.

As the comments above pointed out, Obama raised an insane amount of money. Yes there were ‘grassroots’ donations, but there were all the big name lobbying orgs, corporations, PACs/etc.

He used 2.0 outlets, but really spent a lot on his 30 minute TV spot and other mainstream media outlets. He also had a lot of help by getting these outlets on his side (See today’s article by the WaPo, on the WaPo’s coverage…interesting).

I found the debates on TV surprisingly devoid of intelligent conversation about anything. Both he and McCain danced around issues and never really debated – in the classic sense of the word – any kind of policy. They basically just pointed fingers, caricatured and argued.

And my impression of the young voting block is not great — maybe I’m biased by the “Rock the Vote”-type exposees where the 100,000+ new registrants had a hard time answering how many Senators we have, what the Bill of Rights is, what happened in 1776, etc.

I would love to see some hard proof about how people are using 2.0 and collaboration to:
a) Intelligently discuss/debate issues (not just flame others or ’sound off’ against the left or right)
b) become more informed of issues in a bi-partisan fashion (e.g. what blogs/wikis/Facebook groups discuss alternative energy, healthcare reform, etc. and aren’t a front or tool of a heavily left-leaning or right-leaning organization)
c) act as a seeding ground for new policy ideas and solutions to our problems

Anything that shows 2.0 technology accomplishing or trying to accomplish any of the three things above would be very impressive to me.

]]> By: SavvyGrind http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2008/11/07/politics-20-real-democracy-is-close/comment-page-1/#comment-190051 SavvyGrind Sat, 08 Nov 2008 06:16:45 +0000 http://www.fastforwardblog.com/?p=1195#comment-190051 The Obama08 campaign's embracing and implementation of Web 2.0, Internet Marketing, and 'new' marketing in their campaign was impressive. Considering the scale... * Text Messaging * Social Networking * Social Advertising * Video * Microblogging * Social News * And the list goes on... The Obama08 campaign’s embracing and implementation of Web 2.0, Internet Marketing, and ‘new’ marketing in their campaign was impressive. Considering the scale…

* Text Messaging
* Social Networking
* Social Advertising
* Video
* Microblogging
* Social News
* And the list goes on…

]]> By: Noah David Simon http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2008/11/07/politics-20-real-democracy-is-close/comment-page-1/#comment-190030 Noah David Simon Fri, 07 Nov 2008 23:50:31 +0000 http://www.fastforwardblog.com/?p=1195#comment-190030 while I have no doubt that what he did worked... I don't think it worked the way you think it did with any Web 2.0 Jolly Gee Wizzz.... Shizzz.... reality is it didn't work for Ron Paul... reality is it didn't work for MoveOn.Org or Howard Dean.... this was not so much a victory for Obama and Web 2.0 ...as it was for the failed PR of G W Bush the GOP had slash and burn economics and they used up the resources. Regardless... they did put together an incredible game in the end... but the truth is they were not beat by Web 2.0... but rather by CNN, MSNBC, PBS and mainstream cable TV.... it isn't so much a revolution of change... as the same old... same old... and hopefully we will live to see the pendulum of death swing around a few more times before a Nucleor Holocaust. cross your fingers. ...this isn't to say that that Web2.0 hurt core convictions... and grass roots were certainly helped... but there is a reason Obama spent his big bucks on TV. while I have no doubt that what he did worked… I don’t think it worked the way you think it did with any Web 2.0 Jolly Gee Wizzz…. Shizzz….

reality is it didn’t work for Ron Paul…
reality is it didn’t work for MoveOn.Org or Howard Dean….
this was not so much a victory for Obama and Web 2.0
…as it was for the failed PR of G W Bush

the GOP had slash and burn economics and they used up the resources. Regardless… they did put together an incredible game in the end… but the truth is they were not beat by Web 2.0… but rather by CNN, MSNBC, PBS and mainstream cable TV….

it isn’t so much a revolution of change… as the same old… same old… and hopefully we will live to see the pendulum of death swing around a few more times before a Nucleor Holocaust.

cross your fingers.

…this isn’t to say that that Web2.0 hurt core convictions… and grass roots were certainly helped… but there is a reason Obama spent his big bucks on TV.

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