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	<title>Comments on: The Persistence of Relationships</title>
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	<link>http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2009/11/04/the-persistence-of-relationships/</link>
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		<title>By: Rotkapchen</title>
		<link>http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2009/11/04/the-persistence-of-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-252957</link>
		<dc:creator>Rotkapchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fastforwardblog.com/?p=3964#comment-252957</guid>
		<description>Larry: Great clarifications and more unfolding of the story that&#039;s here to be uncovered from different viewpoints.

What you made me think of are all the things that ARE persisted that then become &#039;fact&#039; and need to be challenged (like the time I was denied a trademark for something that existed but was &#039;dead&#039; -- the company had been purchased and the new owners had no intent of using the product). Especially all the &#039;lore&#039; that gets repeated in companies.

Reminded too (based on an event just this morning) that more meaningful than an internal Wikipedia (which many companies mistakenly focus on as a first venture) would be an internal Snopes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry: Great clarifications and more unfolding of the story that&#8217;s here to be uncovered from different viewpoints.</p>
<p>What you made me think of are all the things that ARE persisted that then become &#8216;fact&#8217; and need to be challenged (like the time I was denied a trademark for something that existed but was &#8216;dead&#8217; &#8212; the company had been purchased and the new owners had no intent of using the product). Especially all the &#8216;lore&#8217; that gets repeated in companies.</p>
<p>Reminded too (based on an event just this morning) that more meaningful than an internal Wikipedia (which many companies mistakenly focus on as a first venture) would be an internal Snopes!</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Irons</title>
		<link>http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2009/11/04/the-persistence-of-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-252950</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Irons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fastforwardblog.com/?p=3964#comment-252950</guid>
		<description>Paula, I don&#039;t think we are misunderstanding one another. I was simply pointing out that, from the customer side, persistence is sometimes an instance of identity. I haven&#039;t seen much research or insight into brand communities formed initially around products, and persisting after the product is no longer sold by the owner, other than the research I discussed in the post I referred to in my earlier message. Something in the original product and relationship leads to the formation of such communities and persists apart from the a corporate memory, or even business process, to support it. Indeed, some communities form around service offerings separate from the provider before the company engages them (Netflix is a good example).

However, when it comes to your overall point, I certainly agree that relationships can&#039;t develop without a corporate memory, whether across employees or between companies and customers. I think Ross Mayfield hit the point on the head recently. Referring to companies involved in monitoring conversations about their brand, Ross noted that, “Before they collaborate with the community, they have to collaborate with themselves.” 

For example, there is no general rule that dictates a customer support agent at a call center must follow a scripted conversation to solve problems. There are specific rules developed by call center companies that certain questions are asked in a certain order, often irrelevant to the reason a customer is calling -- all in the name of meeting KPIs. When I relate to employees of a company that provides me with a product or service I want to talk to them like I do to people in general, not like a machine. I think this relates to the point Rachel is making about a dam existing that social media opened up. Building another dam of rules around the social media conversation in order to control it in the name of corporate memory won&#039;t solve the issues that you highlight IMHO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paula, I don&#8217;t think we are misunderstanding one another. I was simply pointing out that, from the customer side, persistence is sometimes an instance of identity. I haven&#8217;t seen much research or insight into brand communities formed initially around products, and persisting after the product is no longer sold by the owner, other than the research I discussed in the post I referred to in my earlier message. Something in the original product and relationship leads to the formation of such communities and persists apart from the a corporate memory, or even business process, to support it. Indeed, some communities form around service offerings separate from the provider before the company engages them (Netflix is a good example).</p>
<p>However, when it comes to your overall point, I certainly agree that relationships can&#8217;t develop without a corporate memory, whether across employees or between companies and customers. I think Ross Mayfield hit the point on the head recently. Referring to companies involved in monitoring conversations about their brand, Ross noted that, “Before they collaborate with the community, they have to collaborate with themselves.” </p>
<p>For example, there is no general rule that dictates a customer support agent at a call center must follow a scripted conversation to solve problems. There are specific rules developed by call center companies that certain questions are asked in a certain order, often irrelevant to the reason a customer is calling &#8212; all in the name of meeting KPIs. When I relate to employees of a company that provides me with a product or service I want to talk to them like I do to people in general, not like a machine. I think this relates to the point Rachel is making about a dam existing that social media opened up. Building another dam of rules around the social media conversation in order to control it in the name of corporate memory won&#8217;t solve the issues that you highlight IMHO.</p>
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		<title>By: Paula Thornton</title>
		<link>http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2009/11/04/the-persistence-of-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-252841</link>
		<dc:creator>Paula Thornton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 01:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fastforwardblog.com/?p=3964#comment-252841</guid>
		<description>Larry: I always respect your input so I apologize if I&#039;ve misunderstood your comments. It would appear that perhaps I might not have been as specifically clear in my points. The main point of persisting relationships that I was making is that we have to be able to create corporate memory that can be accessed by others. Persisting relationships requires the capture of data that goes beyond the typical CRM systems which is more focused on &#039;attaining&#039; customers than on &#039;retaining&#039; them.

Indeed the community example you gave is an explicit example that I&#039;d want to rail against -- an isolated environment whereby the individual is not connected back to any other existing relationships they have with the company. It&#039;s a function of identity.

Companies have issues already with giving their own employees persistent identities by which their own work can be tied across a company (e.g. whatever I comment on, whatever I create, can all be found in a single collection, as relevant, for sharing). It will be a bigger hurdle to do the same for customers.

If I&#039;ve missed something obvious, please clarify for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry: I always respect your input so I apologize if I&#8217;ve misunderstood your comments. It would appear that perhaps I might not have been as specifically clear in my points. The main point of persisting relationships that I was making is that we have to be able to create corporate memory that can be accessed by others. Persisting relationships requires the capture of data that goes beyond the typical CRM systems which is more focused on &#8216;attaining&#8217; customers than on &#8216;retaining&#8217; them.</p>
<p>Indeed the community example you gave is an explicit example that I&#8217;d want to rail against &#8212; an isolated environment whereby the individual is not connected back to any other existing relationships they have with the company. It&#8217;s a function of identity.</p>
<p>Companies have issues already with giving their own employees persistent identities by which their own work can be tied across a company (e.g. whatever I comment on, whatever I create, can all be found in a single collection, as relevant, for sharing). It will be a bigger hurdle to do the same for customers.</p>
<p>If I&#8217;ve missed something obvious, please clarify for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Happe</title>
		<link>http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2009/11/04/the-persistence-of-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-252820</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Happe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 23:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fastforwardblog.com/?p=3964#comment-252820</guid>
		<description>I love the thought that social media channels wouldn&#039;t be so popular for customers if the old channels were working (from the customers&#039; perspective, not the companies). It&#039;s like companies have been building up a dam and social media put a little hole in it and now a flood of activity is coming through those channels.  People love @comcastcares because they get a fast, effective reply. If they thought they would get that over the phone, they would use the phone.  Makes one pause as we start putting workflow and structure around social media.  Are we just building more dams? I think you&#039;re right on... we need to fix the root cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the thought that social media channels wouldn&#8217;t be so popular for customers if the old channels were working (from the customers&#8217; perspective, not the companies). It&#8217;s like companies have been building up a dam and social media put a little hole in it and now a flood of activity is coming through those channels.  People love @comcastcares because they get a fast, effective reply. If they thought they would get that over the phone, they would use the phone.  Makes one pause as we start putting workflow and structure around social media.  Are we just building more dams? I think you&#8217;re right on&#8230; we need to fix the root cause.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Irons</title>
		<link>http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2009/11/04/the-persistence-of-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-252593</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Irons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 20:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fastforwardblog.com/?p=3964#comment-252593</guid>
		<description>Nice definition of “persistence” as the “the continuance of an effect after its cause is removed”. I&#039;d suggest that brand communities that survive the brand that initially caused them to form provide an example of persistence that offers ONE answer to your question, &quot;Would the delight of getting help via social media channels be as meaningful if as a customer you didn’t have any problems to be resolved?&quot;

The research on the 3Com Audrey and Apple Newton brand communities I wrote about in a recent post provide good examples of what persistence means, and how it works, apart from the ongoing corporate relationship.

http://skilfulminds.com/2009/10/20/customer-competencies-co-creation-and-brand-communities/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice definition of “persistence” as the “the continuance of an effect after its cause is removed”. I&#8217;d suggest that brand communities that survive the brand that initially caused them to form provide an example of persistence that offers ONE answer to your question, &#8220;Would the delight of getting help via social media channels be as meaningful if as a customer you didn’t have any problems to be resolved?&#8221;</p>
<p>The research on the 3Com Audrey and Apple Newton brand communities I wrote about in a recent post provide good examples of what persistence means, and how it works, apart from the ongoing corporate relationship.</p>
<p><a href="http://skilfulminds.com/2009/10/20/customer-competencies-co-creation-and-brand-communities/" rel="nofollow">http://skilfulminds.com/2009/10/20/customer-competencies-co-creation-and-brand-communities/</a></p>
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		<title>By: martymorrow</title>
		<link>http://www.fastforwardblog.com/2009/11/04/the-persistence-of-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-252552</link>
		<dc:creator>martymorrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fastforwardblog.com/?p=3964#comment-252552</guid>
		<description>thank you for your thorough response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank you for your thorough response.</p>
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